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Lang, interessante 400m training discussie
diverse auteurs -- 2004.04.14Van de oude CharlieFrancis.com forum, nu helaas alleen te bezichtigen via de Wayback Machine, deze discussie over de 400m. Inclusief goeie bijdragen van o.a. Francis, Kitkat (coach van Australische recordhouder Darren Clark 44.38), en dcw23.
Forums Home > Training 101 > 400m and Training Ideas
Clemson
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Senior Member 5/6/2002 : 1:19:42 PM
this post has been
edited 1 time(s)
Since most of the threads are based on the shorter sprints, post ideas on
specific 400m training. How much,when, and why on Special Endurance,
Weights, Tempo runs, Speed, Peaking...
How do you prepare a 43-44 man? Why is the World record so much faster then
the current times for women, (training only concepts only). Do we need more
christmas lights Charlie? Can speed endurance be added like the 100m? How
much aerobic work is too much?
Clemson
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Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/7/2002 : 9:52:17 AM
Taken from the
IAAF website this morning...
Dai Tamesue, an Edmonton bronze medallist at the 400mH, ran 400m in the
Hyogo Relays, and the Shizuoka International meet. He recorded 47.71 and
48.37 in Hyogo and Shizuoka respectively. "I was hoping to break 47 seconds,
but since most of my winter training consists of distance little over 100m,
I did not really know what to expect at 400m," said Tamesue who was
surrounded by most of reporters present at the meet. "Much of my winter
training consists of sprints work out. The main idea is that 400m consists
of forty 10m segments. So I have even done training like 10x10m sprints."
what do you think?
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/7/2002 : 11:56:23 AM
Re 400
There are many ways to prepare for the 400m and the athlete's individual
strengths should be considered. I would suggest that women are more likely
to benefit from shorter work as they are less able to approach the event
from the strength angle and speed reserve is the key (the difference between
best 200m time and 400m race split at 200m).
Pioneer
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Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/7/2002 : 10:10:49 PM
this post has
been edited 1 time(s)
It seems that on the world scene today there is not enough 200m speed in the
400's. Maybe Michael Johnson made us believe that 200/400 runners would be
more commonplace but it does not seem to be the case. So many people talked
about MJ's strength(see speed endurance) as the main reason for his 400
success but I believe his success in the 400 can be summed up with the
numbers 19.32. No, not every great 200 runner can be a successful 400 guy
but that speed reserve he had sure had to have helped. How many current 400
runners could go out in 21.0 or so and have it feel like just a fast run and
not a near all out sprint. Most of the current world class 400 runners
probably have 200 pr's which are not but mid 20's. How many people believe
if these guys were to spend more time doing REAL speed development work they
would all benefit greatly-I do. It seems that current 400m speed development
is 3x500 with short rests and 5x300 with the same rests which we know is not
speed. I'm not arguing that longer sprints don't have a place in the
development of the 400 sprinter, just that I believe many overdo it. This is
why I really like Charlie's method of treating the 400 person as a sprinter
with 2-3 reps of longer sprints with full recoveries combined with the short
sprint work of the 100/200 sprinter. This method has really benefitted my
runners and they seem to be fresher from this type of program and there is
not as much to recover from.
Randy
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Posts : 102
Website Member 5/7/2002 : 11:57:36 PM
400m Splits
I believe it was Kebba that posted the splits for female 100m runners. Does
anyone have splits for female and male 400m runners? Also, what effort
(percentage) do members have their 400m runners come through at the 200m
mark (92%, 95% etc)? Also, has anyone payed attention to 300m splits?
Thanks
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 8:56:49 AM
Randy I will email
you some splits that I have of some big names. As for 100 splits, why not
40m splits as well. While I don't tell what percentage to go through, I feel
that the training will lead them to a specific "groove" when doing the
specific endurance. For adding specific endurance I add 10m for 100m, 20 for
200m, and 40m for 400m. The longer sprints my tempos start decending. I also
use intermediate speeds for lactate work something I would not do for the
shorter sprints. This cross method I use creates a biochemical taper and a
peak, power wise. Marita ran a 47.60 in 1985 doing speed work, we in the
2000s still do repeat miles for the 400 at D1 schools here in America.
flash
Senior Member
Posts : 860
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 11:02:04 AM
Pioneer,
In the third(?) edition (1990) of Sprints and Relays by Jess Jarver there
was an article by a couple of East German coaches that argued along the same
lines regarding 200m speed. It's been several years since I last read the
article, but I believe they asserted that the best 400m sprinters tend to be
converted 100/200 runners. Remember Quincy Watts?
If memory serves me right, they state that the most important factor for
400m performance tends to be the first 200m split, which is usually run at
90% of best 200m performance. Therefore, the greater the 200m speed reserve,
the better the 400m performance. So you're not alone on this idea.
I'm sure several of you guys out there have a copy of S&R 3rd. ed. (1990),
and can look up the article to verify this.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/8/2002 : 1:06:43 PM
Re
Intermediate Speeds
I wouldn't use intermediate speeds, I'd adjust the SE distances and increase
the low intensity tempo volume from approx 2000 to 3000meters.
Clemson
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Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 5:02:47 PM
this post has been
edited 1 time(s)
In the Mentor 9:1-2. Charlie writes "Percy saw no point in running at
intermediate speeds, which he thought would tighten your muslces withoug
honing your power. He wanted his runners moving fast or slow-nothing in
between."
While I agree with this in the 60m + 100m I do a few microcycles of
this(intermediate speed work) in the 200. I do 2-3 microcycles more of this
work in the 400m.
What I will do is more tempo work and smarter SE training. But is it that
pure? I decided to look at intensity and physiological benefits in my
endurance notes (books on distance training by the masters such as Lance
Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael, Joe Vigil, and Peter Coe) Does speed
endurance training cover enough of the all of lactate mM/L capacities that
the tempo work doesn't? Answer- roughly 90%.The one area would be increasing
glycolytic enzymes that would suffer slightly. I feel that perhaps a shorter
interval with SE repeats could help this area without doing too much
intermediate work. I feel that actual SE sessions will develop SE
too(obvious), but emphasis on increases of GLY/ENZ will improve that area
faster and more effectively. 6-8 workouts only are to overload and prime
those substrate enzymes, since speed training improves whatever elements
specifically. Simply 8 percent in my training.
Charlie-What did Koch do annually. Did she sprint three times a week and add
distance? Or did she do combonations of other energy systems?
Pioneer
Senior Member
Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 7:04:42 PM
In the comp. phase
I like the 400 people to run those longer reps at speeds higher than those
they will encounter in the race so they can extend their speed reserve. I
know some like to have their athletes to run 250's, 300's etc. at 400 pace.
I believe they learn pace by running the race. For example if we are running
2x300 with 20 minutes or so rest, I want the athletes to run those 300's not
like they are running the first 300 of the 400 but rather, as we like to
joke, like they are running 250 and have to hold on. I don't know if this
method is contrary to what many others are doing but I believe if you have
run say 35.0 for the 300 going out in 36.0-36.5 en route to a full 400 does
not feel so difficult. It is still difficult, to be sure, but you both know
and feel(physically, in terms of exertion)that you have been faster before.
It seems, rightly or not, that running the in-between paces might lock in an
inappropriate speed. I suppose it would also depend upon the volume the
athletes would perform at these speeds.
Clemson
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Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 7:28:13 PM
this post has been
edited 2 time(s)
Pioneer writes."It seems, rightly or not, that running the in-between paces
might lock in an inappropriate speed."
What will tempo do then? Train slow run slow...Just to be the devil's
advocate.(I've been called worse)You see how things can be argued?
suppose it would also depend upon the volume the athletes would perform at
these speeds.
I use intermediate runs less then 8 percent(6-8 times a year!), but the
effectiveness of it convinces me not to leave it out.
Yes, that's why we quatify things. A contrast shower, protein drinks,
lifting protocols, are all about numbers. Charlie has the 75% mark as too
high, he also has the 80% mark for intense lifts. Without numbers it's
theory and fancy terms. Numbers force you to put your you no what on the
chopping block. This is why track will always have the best minds,
accountability.
I believe they learn pace by running the race. So simple, yet you should see
what is being done at big time colleges. Very nice Pioneer.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/8/2002 : 10:11:36 PM
Re Marita Koch
Marita ran her special endurance at race pace in an ascending order of
distances and a descending number of reps (I don't have the time over which
the sequence was carried out) She had timing lights set up every 5 meters
set at the planned ultimate race pace and she followed the lights during all
of her runs. The runs started with a significant number of 50 meter runs and
culminated with one run over 325 meters. When she successfully completed
this distance she was considered ready for the 400 race. She raced at the
400 meter distance no more than 2 or 3 times a year. She, of course, ran
sprint distances at well above any conceivable race pace (Official PBs of
10.83 and 21.71) I was told by her coach/husband, Wolfgang Meyer, that she
ran an unofficial,but electronically timed 21.56 just before the world
record of 47.60 that she set in Canberra in 1985. I was there and it was a
sight to behold! The key for her was her incredible speed reserve. Her 200m
split in Canberra was 22.4h with 33.9 at 300m. As her hand timed 200PB would
be 21.3, this left her with a speed reserve of 1.1 seconds. In other
words,even though she went out far faster than anyone else,she still had a
bigger differential, meaning the split was easier for her than for any of
the others!
flash
Senior Member
Posts : 860
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 10:31:49 PM
Do you think 400m
runners might do better to concentrate on the 200m during the indoor season
before stretching out to the 400m during the outdoor season? This would be
similar to a 100/200m sprinter concentrating on the 50-60m during the indoor
season. Just an idea.
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 10:40:03 PM
Good Idea, since
their are few 44.0 guys that run 11.1 in the 100m, I will look at scheduling
200m races to get things going for the 400m.
Pioneer
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Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/8/2002 : 11:06:40 PM
this post has
been edited 3 time(s)
Clemson, you are correct sir. Much of this is theory and much is based on
observation and experience. Although we all have had similar and dissimilar
experiences in the very areas we are disscusing. I believe some of the
numbers SOME people use are based on research and some based on opinion.
Much may have even been passed on unwittingly to us by former
coaches/mentors. We often like or dislike things that we believe are working
for us or not. If we really had the time or means(not to mention guinea
pigs)we could accurately rate how good/bad many of the training methods we
use are. Unfortunately there are so many variables we cannot truly rate
things independently. Certainly your volume of the intensive tempo(if it
could be called that I suppose)is very low. It might be beneficial to many,
it is just that I have always believed(strictly opinion) that it translated
to locking in middle distance pace though 8% volume or less would be
unlikely to do that. The typical definition I see for ext. tempo is 60-80%
and the 80% mark is what I have seen in much research as being the minimum
for strength gains so I know what you are talking about. I guess we all
change and adapt over time or we go no where. If we did not change something
about our program every year, even something minor, we are in effect saying
that our program is perfect and cannot be improved upon. Not change for the
sake of change but change that we feel will elicit true improvements. I will
add that I always believed having a significant volume of aerobic work in a
program would truly slow my sprinters until two years ago when we
incorporated ext. tempo work into the training program.It has made a
tremendous difference in our ability to recover enabling my guys to sprint
up to three times per week rather than two. My fears were based on much of
the research done regarding concurrent strength and endurance training. I
suppose the main difference is the breaking down of the tempo volume into
100's, 200's, and 300's rather than two to five miles of continuous
running(which we have never done nor will we ever do). Charlie's books are
the cause of my change and I'm glad for it. I was not being directly
critical just indicating what I like and why though I did not get real
specific in that area. Additionally, though I have believed that you learn
400 pace by running the race, there is a fairly successful sprint coach who
has had a FEW PRETTY GOOD 400 runners in his day named John Smith who does
pacing workouts. I suppose he has had some success. Many ways to skin that
cat. Also let me appologize for my non use of paragraphs all over this
forum. I will correct this, thanks.
AJ
Website Member
Posts : 80
Website Member 5/9/2002 : 1:56:21 AM
charlie, could
you give some examples of what you did/do in at tempo session of 3000m
volume, This is the area that scares me most in setting up/revising my
program. I believe I was guilty of too much running at medium speed, which I
feel caused a laziness (For want of a better word) in technique.
AJ
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Posts : 80
Website Member 5/9/2002 : 2:01:05 AM
Charlie, Anymore
info on Koch's training would be great, or a little more detail on the
progression mentioned in your previous posts.
Did she use tempo + special endurance
Did she use weights?
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/9/2002 : 8:37:11 AM
this post has been
edited 1 time(s)
Pioneer writes "I know some like to have their athletes to run 250's, 300's
etc. at 400 pace. I believe they learn pace by running the race. For example
if we are running 2x300 with 20 minutes or so rest, I want the athletes to
run those 300's not like they are running the first 300 of the 400 but
rather, as we like to joke, like they are running 250 and have to hold on. "
This perhaps one of the best ways to produce a quality 400m person. Speed
that prepares for specific conditioning. What kills me in swimming is
coaches who fall in love with lactate threshold stuff. When the american
record is 41 and you do 20x100 on 110 you have trained to handle lactate
clearance of a 52 guy, not 41. The 400 with too much intermediate work will
have an athlete tighten up arond 300m. His body was prepared for 5 mM/L and
the race was over 8! They can't shuttle the lactate fast enough, sort of
like I love Lucy at the chocolate factory.
My fears were based on much of the research done regarding concurrent
strength and endurance training. I suppose the main difference is the
breaking down of the tempo volume into 100's, 200's, and 300's rather than
two to five miles of continuous running(which we have never nor we will we
ever do).
This is were I have problems with tempo contruction. Rest periods and
distance. I am trying to use different combonations to see what happens.
Pioneer...please do not think I was being critical of your program. I was
just trying to show everyone that we must look at the other side of the
arguement to help us see new paths that can help us in the sport of track.
As for aerobic training and power, list your email and I can show you some
good research, most of it you have seen, some maybe you have not.
AJ writes "I believe I was guilty of too much running at medium speed, which
I feel caused a laziness (For want of a better word) in technique. "
When we have a new 400m person we do 100m tempo work to work on technique.
In fact nothing we do is more then 600m. I feel that warm-ups with repeat
short distances are important. If you have him or her do a few laps to jog,
look at the technique then! Tempo was boring to the athletes before they
joined our program. We learn how to relax different zones and work
technique. Perhaps this will not translate at fast speed, but my
observations have me keeping it in my program.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/9/2002 : 9:59:49 AM
Re
Koch
I know she had at least two tempo phases of training. I believe they were
separate periods though I don't know how long they lasted. During this
phase, she would do runs like 10x400 meters in 65 to 70 seconds with a short
break (though I don't know how long) Interestingly, her tempo fell within
the same rate as ours did- 75% of best time or slower. I wonder if anyone
can get hold of Wolfgang Meyer to ask him for more details. I heard that
Marita and Wolfgang had opened a sporting goods store in Germany a few years
ago.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/9/2002 : 10:13:23 AM
Re John Smith
I spoke to John in 1988 about his 400 meter training. He described it as
similar to what I was doing with one big change. After he spoke to Clyde
Hart about the energy system change that occurred at 40sec, he shifted his
special endurance runs from 300meters to 350meters. This change moved much
of the season's work to times above 40sec. As the athletes got faster and
approached the 40sec threshold, he shortened the rest periods to keep them
above 40sec a little longer. Then when he wanted them to start peaking, he
spread the rest periods and let them fly! Of course, with the people he
produced, some of them started turning out 350s in the 37sec range towards
the end. Of course,as in all cases, you need to know the whole program to
see how the componants interplay.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/9/2002 : 10:21:03 AM
Re AJ
Examples of tempo runs are given in the Charlie Francis Training Manual sold
here on the site. Any combination of the listed examples that totals your
required distance can be done (variety is good in this case) as long as the
pace is kept at or below 75% of best time and that your athletes can finish
at the pace they started with. If they can't, then slow the runs down to the
pace where they can.
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/9/2002 : 2:30:07 PM
Clemson,
Regarding those splits...
ragillo@ilstu.edu
Thanks
Pioneer
Senior Member
Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/9/2002 : 9:43:43 PM
Clemson, I
definitely agree on your use of observations to construct your program.
Though most of us initially put our program together based upon advice of
training gurus, actual research, books, videos, etc., we have to determine
for ourselves if everything really works together, is compatible with the
other training elements, the current status of our athletes, and our
specific training environment. We can be told that something works or should
work but until we see results of the program(good or bad), we cannot take
this advice as gospel. We are definitely on the same page. As I said before
many ways to skin that cat, though our methods are not really all that
different. E-mail is jhwill34@hotmail.com. Thanks for the research heads-up.
Much of what I've seen is in old nsca journals.
AJ
Website Member
Posts : 80
Website Member 5/9/2002 : 10:48:30 PM
posted by Charlie
Re Koch
I know she had at least two tempo phases of training. I believe they were
separate periods though I don't know how long they lasted. During this
phase, she would do runs like 10x400 meters in 65 to 70 seconds with a short
break (though I don't know how long) Interestingly, her tempo fell within
the same rate as ours did- 75% of best time or slower.
Sounds like the classic definition of tempo work, something similar is in
the East German textbook "Track & Field".
TO all the coaches on the list
HOw many of our sprinters are that fit generally????
Speed plus aerobic capacity/power (Developed gradually and in parallel with
speed) plus just a little specific lactic work seems to make the best 400m
athletes
flash
Senior Member
Posts : 860
Senior Member 5/9/2002 : 11:20:56 PM
Charlie,
How do you balance the workload between longer SE (300m+) and shorter speed
endurance (80-150m)?
For example, for a 400 runner you recommend once a week for the longer SE,
similar to the once-a-week recommendation of 80-150 work for a 100 runner.
Would it be too exhaustive for a 400 runner to do both a 300+ workout and a
80-150 workout every week? Or should the 400 runner not bother with the
shorter 80-150 work, but just concentrate on 60-80m speed work and 300+ SE?
AJ
Website Member
Posts : 80
Website Member 5/9/2002 : 11:35:04 PM
posted by Charlie
Re AJ
Examples of tempo runs are given in the Charlie Francis Training Manual sold
here on the site. ]
Charlie, Is there a difference between this book and the training for speed
book released in australia? (I have this one)
flash
Senior Member
Posts : 860
Senior Member 5/9/2002 : 11:37:34 PM
I emailed the
publisher of the Training for Speed book and he told me it's same as the
Training System book, just a different title and cover.
Pioneer
Senior Member
Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/12/2002 : 11:41:58 PM
How is speed
endurance and special endurance cycled throughout the year? Progessively
longer reps in order to extend maximal speed(or a % of)progressively further
out? During the early training phases are the s.e. sprints maximal or
submaximal?
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/13/2002 :
10:46:43 AM
Re SPecial End
We've touched on this elsewhere. SE can be added as soon as enough speed is
in place. This occurs at different times. For example 300meter SE speed is
already in place when the athlete can accel at full effort to 30meters but
80 to 120meter SE peed is only in place when all speed qualities are in
place.
Clemson
Senior Member
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Senior Member 5/13/2002 : 10:54:19 AM
What do you
think about Winkler's and Gambetta's classifications of sprint energy
systems? Since most of the terminology comes from that (USATF coaching
education)article, do you agree with their guidelines? They did compile this
from a nice source, but was something lost during the "translation" from the
people who invented this? This agreement in terminology can help the forum
be on the same page.
mikeh
Website Member
Posts : 60
Website Member 5/13/2002 : 4:45:03 PM
Re: Pioneer
The 200 meters is an afterthought for most sprinters these days. I don't
think that very many sprinters bother with much specialized training for the
200, as the big $$$ event is the 100.
As a result, every top 200 meter man hovers between 19.9 and 20.3 much of
the time, and this really hasn't changed in several years. Maurice Greene
fancied himself the de-throner of Michael Johnson, but if MJ had been
healthy that would never have happened under any circumstances. Whether
Greene is even now the best 200 man in the world is somewhat debatable. I am
convinced he won at the 1999 WC's simply because the rest of the field could
not imagine themselves faster than the great Maurice Greene.
Pioneer
Senior Member
Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/13/2002 : 7:14:32 PM
Mike h, my
original post was really about how the lack of speed for 400 guys on the
world scene today might be one of the biggest limitations for ulitmate 400
success. Since I don't have block or flying 30 times for these guys, I was
using their 200 performances as an indication of their speed capabilities. I
contend if these other world class 400 people were/are at best 1.0+ seconds
behind Johnson, their chances of breaking into the very low 44's or even
into the 43 range are very slim. It was not about specializing in the 200
but rather 400 sprinters focusing early on in the season on 200's and speed
development leading up to that. I say this because so many of the 400
programs I've seen involve just 300's to 500's yet no real speed
development.
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/14/2002 :
12:10:10 AM
this post has been edited 1 time(s)
Re 200m speed for 400m- THE TWILIGHT ZONE
Don't use Michael as a template for the 400m. He was injured just when he
was ready to utterly destroy the 400meter record. I assume his plan was to
go for the record in Zurich, 10days after the 1996 Olympics. He cruised to
the 400 win in Atlanta because he had to conserve his resources for the
200meters. Lets do the math. The 400meter time should work out to
approximately 2x200m hand time + 3.5sec. So, 19.1 + 19.1 + 3.5 (+ .24 back
to Electronic timing) = 41.94! Obviously, though, a number of 43 point 400
meter men broke the 3.5 second differential as they were not 20sec 200m
performers.
Pioneer
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Senior Member 5/14/2002 : 9:23:13 PM
this post has
been edited 2 time(s)
I realize that MJ's numbers were not typical and the 200 record is far
superior to the 400 record . I think of somebody like Quincy Watts who had
excellent speed at the shorter distance and only moved up to the 400 because
of repeated hamstring injuries. I believe it was reccomended to him to move
up since he would be moving at obviously lower speeds in the longer race.
I'm not sure what 100/200 times he ran at USC but I believe he ran around
20.50/20.60 during his jr. year in high school. Maybe somebody out there
knows of his college/hs pr's. As for some others like Steve Lewis and Danny
Everett I don't remember their pr's but believe if their 200 times were not
that impressive it could be attrributed to their rarely running the races. I
know I'm going out on a limb here with my guess/opinion but I believe they
were probably pretty fast over shorter distances as well. Charlie, would you
guess that some of those top 400 guys had superior speed in the 200's to
those not quite as fast if they all ran a number of them to compare-though
maybe not sub 20? I almost forgot to mention Butch though I have no idea
what his shorter distance times were.
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/14/2002 : 11:45:47 PM How much should
a 400m runner be on flats vs spikes? The same ratio as a sprinter? Is is
grass for tempo, and track for speed? Why does the 400 stink now (women
mainly). Why were the women running faster in the 80's?
www.iaaf.org/Results/index.asp
Perhaps I should get in the 400m business. Anyone?
Charlie
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Administrator Forum Moderator 5/15/2002 : 1:21:04 PM
this post has been edited 1 time(s)
Tempo
Any tempo should be on grass if at all possible. Because of the pounding
effect and the release characteristics of rubberized tracks, the volume
should be restricted to what is absolutely necessary. It never ceases to
amaze me how many people LIVE on the track. They warm-up on it, do tempo on
it, bound on it, do drills on it, you name it. Give your body a break and
train on the grass whenever possible. As for the women's 400m, you have to
get the right people to do it. I have no doubt that Flo-Jo would have broken
the World Record in the 400m also, had she been so inclined. Her Special
Endurance numbers stagger the imagination. How about running 2x640meters-
going through the 400 split at 49.7 and 50.0 ,with no apparent decelleration
and walking away at the end without bending over! Or how about 6x160m (not
150) in 16.4 from a standing start with a 240m walk in between! Today's only
apparent threat to the 400m record is Marion Jones, should she get serious
about it. With her 100m and 200m speed and physical size, there is
absolutely no doubt she could break the record, with the right preparation.
So far, without Marion, the event is wide open.
AJ
Website Member
Posts : 80
Website Member 5/16/2002 : 5:00:00 AM
Charlie, the
thing that amazed me with Flo-Jo was the strength of her hamstrings ect, any
Idea's on what she was doing in the weight room?
I think the group would appreciate any other "war Stories" about Flo-Jo's
training.
Charlie
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Posts : 1942
Administrator Forum Moderator 5/16/2002 : 11:10:28 AM
Re Flo-JO
I don't know much about her weight program. I only spoke to people who saw
the running portion of her program. I only know that the group preferred
full squats. I do know that Bobby used the Isorobic Exerciser (a modern
version of the old exergenie that feeds out a nylon line with adjustable
tension). This way, Flo-Jo could do drills with some resistance to help her
get up into a good sprint position- running A drills for example. This was
an approach used by Leo Davis (Quarrie's old coach) many years ago. I've
used it with athletes when necessary and it helps, but keep the resistance
light!
RMT
Website Member
Posts : 171
Website Member 5/16/2002 : 1:18:52 PM
I haven't worked
much with 400 meter athletes. Could some
of you provide examples of what a typical microcycle might
look like at various points in the year. A very generalized
model would suffice and I'd be most interested in the months
of October, February, and June.
Thanks!
Charlie
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Posts : 1942
Administrator Forum Moderator 5/16/2002 : 9:45:52 PM
TO RMT
Give the list some target competition dates, so they know what they're
shooting for
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/17/2002 : 12:45:11 AM Members,
I too would like some general ideas or suggestion regarding a 400m
micro/meso cycle for the 400m. Our indoor conference is the last week in
February and we have another important meet 2 to 3 weeks before that. Also,
do any of you do anything special in the early portions of the fall (fall
begining in the second week of Sept.)? I found that a few coaches try to get
their athletes in pretty good shape by 6th to 7th week of the fall.
Any ideas....
Thanks for the feed back
vanbooster
Website Member
Posts : 6
Website Member 5/17/2002 : 6:22:49 AM
1st post....hi
everyone.
I have run low 46 400m with 21.4 200m. I started later in life and came
"down" from 400/800 side. I have always worked from endurance to speed but
reading about Charlie's (and others) methods have challenged my thinking. I
feel limited by my 200m speed and am focussing on improving that side of
things while maintaining endurance. A difficulty I have trying to determine
how much and how hard to go through the various stages of a yearly cycle.
I will go through the rest of the forum to see if I can find some answers
but might ask some questions of the board later.
roly
Website Member
Posts : 3
Website Member 5/17/2002 : 12:36:53 PM
Re Training
Direction
Speed in the 400m can be improved working from long to short OR from short
to long. Questions regarding your current strengths- you give your 200m time
but not your 800m time. What is it?
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/17/2002 : 12:51:06 PM
this post has
been edited 4 time(s)
Reading back through the thread I see there has been much talk about the
importance of speed. As I look at some of the current female 400m runners
that have been below 50, and in some cases below 49, I don't recall them
having a great deal of speed (w/the exception of Marion). I may just be
wrong but, Perec I believe was in the low to mid 22's (I think she won
worlds or something one year w/a 22.6 or so) and I don't recall Freeman ever
being a speedster. So with that said how much can be gained by working in
the area of lactic capacity. Also, how about those 800m runners that have
been able to run very solid open 400m and 400m splits? I have a young man
who runs in the high 46's and low 47's but will only run 21.9 in the open
200m and can run 1:50-1:51 (by know means is the 800m super fast but we
never run above 600m and we rarely run at that distance).
Just a little food for thought....
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/17/2002 : 2:03:52 PM
here is more food
for people.
Being a lactate person myself from swimming, I understand the importance of
conditioning and special endurance.
There is a pattern of speed and 400m times.
Cathy Freeman 22.25,48.63
Marie-José Pérec 21.99, 48.25
Valerie Brisco-Hooks 21.81,48.83
then lets look at the Speedy Germans almost 20 years ago.
Marita Koch 21.71,47.60
Bärbel Wöckel 21.85, 49.56
If you work from distance to speed, you will have better enzyme/substrate
utilitzation earlier, but you will hit a plateu and must do a lot speed work
last minute. I will try the former East German approach to swimming in next
year,(what stanford has been doing for decades) and tell everyone how it
went. (we will break a state record)
RMT
Website Member
Posts : 171
Website Member 5/17/2002 : 5:20:06 PM
I wanted to see
how the emphasis on energy system training
and intensity of effort would change during the course
of the year. The month of October wouldn't have any
competitions in it. With February and June, let's say we're
1-2 weeks out from a conference meet and outdoor nationals.
Hope this helps.
Charlie
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Posts : 1942
Administrator Forum Moderator 5/18/2002 : 3:09:52 PM
this post has been edited 1 time(s)
Re Barbel Woeckel
Her 400 time does not indicate her true ability. She ran that 400 very early
in the year- and beat Marita Koch doing it. She was primarily a short
sprinter ( she ran 12.9 in the hurdles at age 17 also!) Re East German
swimming- Their program was based on the short to long principal as it is
easy to establish the world record swim pace in a treadmill pool, which is
what they did. They could set up the perfect world record pace and the
swimmer could learn it by simply staying on the mark for longer and longer
periods.
Clemson
Senior Member
Posts : 1694
Senior Member 5/18/2002 : 3:27:58 PM
I agree Charlie
about the East German sprinters being faster then the times. Look at Flo Jo
as the best example. I only have the IAAF website to guide me, since I was
eight when Marita broke the record.
Pioneer
Senior Member
Posts : 345
Senior Member 5/19/2002 : 9:58:08 PM
Just how long is
the Complete recovery from various distance of speed and special endurance?
For example 300m=20-25 mionutes or 150m=15-17 minutes. I'm talking about
guidelines not necessarily hard and fast rules. Also what type of recovery
should the athlete do between reps-a low intensity but continuous recovery?
I typically like for my athletes to walk around and drink water between reps
but of course they want to lie down between reps which I have always
believed will negatively affect their recovery.
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/22/2002 : 10:33:44 AM
this post has
been edited 1 time(s)
Does anyone have any comp. specific workouts that they have utilized? Either
before or during the season. Also, have anyone look closely at 300m splits
and/or the middle 200m? Just curious, although this might be over kill.
Thanks
vanbooster
Website Member
Posts : 6
Website Member 5/24/2002 : 6:42:22 AM
Still going thru
all the posts in here but will make a start.
I wanted an idea of the minimum speed required to run sub 44.5s and sub
44.0s ?
What is the best measure of speed required for a really competitive 400m ?
Is it 200m times ?
Should this be the main target in training coming from a mid 21s 200m ?
Over 12 months aim focus initially on speed/acceleration/power/strength and
then bring in speed endurance ?
ie the ascending approach ? (opposite to what I have done previously).
200m speed in mens 400:
Michael Johnson
43.18 (1999); 19.32 (+0.4) (1996); 10.09 (+2.0) (1994)
Butch Reynolds
43.29 (1988); 20.46 (???) (1987)
Quincy Watts
43.50 (1992); 20.50A (-0.47) (1987); 10.30 (-0.17) (1987); 10.17w (+3.78)
(1987);
Danny Everett
43.81 (1992); 20.08 (+0.3) (1990)
Steve Lewis
43.87 (1988); 20.58 (0.0) (1992)
Alvin Harrison
44.09 (1996); 20.41 (+1.2) (1996)
Jerome Young
44.09 (1998); 20.41 (-1.5) (1998)
Roberto Hernandez
44.14 (1990); 20.2m (???) (1985)
Anthuan Maybank
44.15 (1996); 20.41 (-0.2) (1996)
Innocent Egbunike
44.17 (1987); 20.42 (+0.6) (1983); 10.15 (???) (1984)
Antonio Pettigrew
44.21 (1999); 20.38 (+1.7) (1994)
Tyree Washington
44.28 (2001); 20.09 (+2.0)
Sanderlei Parrela
44.29 (1999); 20.60A (+0.5)
Thomas Schonlebe
44.33 (1987); 20.48 (+1.3) (1987)
Mark Richardson
44.37 (1998); 20.62 (0.0) (1997)
Michael Franks
44.47 (1985); 20.62 (+0.4); 10.25 (+1.5) (1984)
Greg Haughton
44.56 (1995); 20.64 (+0.8) (1996)
KitKat
Website Member
Posts : 62
Website Member 5/25/2002 : 11:46:27 PM
happy :)To
Charlie,
I love the stuff you wrote about 400m. I had heard the Koch data (from Gabi
Bussman's ex-coach) and I found the Smith/Hart info enlightening as always.
I wouldn't criticise anything I've read so far on your site about 400
training, because sometimes people write gibberish about energy systems, but
the work they give is still really good.
The only thing from my experience, which you corroborated with your analysis
of Marita's Canberra 400m (which I too witnessed - 200m in 22.4 & 300m in
34.1sec, I had seen) , is that in a 400m race you need 1sec "reserve time"
at 200m on your seasonal best 200m. The finest margin is 0.8sec for men (in
Darren Clark's case) with women unlikely to finish a fast 400m if they dip
below 1sec differential.
On the specificity of training for 400m, I try to train at
competition-specific pace for around 90% of trackwork - that may seem
excessive until I explain what my idea of "race-specific" pace is.
I believe that even the slowest part of your target race model/time is "race
pace", so for example when a man runs 44.0, he goes out in about 21sec and
comes home in about 23sec. Race models show anything under 12sec by a male
for the final 100m is elite (Butch Renolds went around 11.2el from memory,
maybe quicker but these are flying start 100m times!). So a target of
11.5sec 100m when contained in a stress-recovery training situation, may
still be regarded as race-pace for a crucial part of the 400m. That could be
contained in 200m reps of around 23sec. (11.5 + 11.5 = 23sec)
So Darren Clark (Australian record 44.38sec) routinely ran 6x200m in 23sec
(or slightly under sometimes) with 200m jog recoveries. (So did Lee Evans
before Mexico.)
Even at the depth of his accumulation phases, a potential international
adult male 400m runner should have no trouble producing a 200m run in
23sec - especially when it's a rolling start, in spikes, on a synthetic
track.
Our philosophy about endurance diverged somewhat from the "over-distance"
idea of rep 1000m, or rep 600m. Instead we had an "over-time" philosophy:
keeping the athlete running fast for longer than his race target, ie longer
than 45sec.
During their general preparation training phases, Darren and Seoul finalist
Maree Holland (50.24, Seoul semi) routinely sprinted "in the rhythm of the
race" up a long grass slope of about 12-degrees for a distance of about
360-metres. That achieved a few things:
* It kept them running for longer than they needed to be out there
competing;
* The slight angle did not unduly disturb their technique, in that they
still ran tall (which tends not to be the case when a sprinter runs rep
500m-1km) and because the ground rises to meet them, they did not
overstride;
* That in keeping with my philosophy that the 400m is essentially a
power-endurance run, the hill sessions acted as a bridge between the
gymnasium weightlifting strength work and the flat track work. Cathy Freeman
also lives on the hills during her general prep phase.
To compound the endurance component, a routine session was 3 x 2 x 360m hill
in 53sec-46sec, with jog down recovery between reps, and full recovery
between sets of about 45min.
We did other sessions during strength and endurance phases such as 3x3x300m
(on grass usually) with 100m jog recovery in 42-49sec and sometimes 3x4x150m
on grass in sub-19sec, so you can see some of the work was not in the race
time-zone at all, but it seems to have helped develop the feed-and-flush
vascular network. The 9x300m and 12x150 only came up one apiece every six
weeks and then only in the general prep phases, although they evolved into
other sessions which were significantly faster...eg: Darren did a set of
300m in 31.7sec (hand, on synthetic track), 30sec recovery, and rolling 200m
backup in sub 21sec. We thought that was pretty good.
In 1990 at the Auckland Commonwealth Games he ran 4 rounds of 400m, winning
every round, taking the final in a then-Games championship record of
44.60sec - in his 4th 400m race is exactly 28hrs! So his endurance was
pretty good. (In Seoul, Phil King - Debbie Flintoff-King's husband and
coach, clocked Darren over 3-step roll-start 200m at 19.8sec hand on the
main track a week before the athletics program started, so his speed was
pretty good.
[An important consideration of speed for 400m is that rolling speed is
basically what you do for most of the race. The ability to have a blitz
start over 60m probably is not so important. And the ability to run a great
200m depends to some extent on being pretty good over 100m. But having great
speed at 200m obviously does not guarantee you'll be also great at 400m. Too
many people train for 400m as though it is a bumped up 200m sprint. But as
any world class 400m runner will atest, the race really starts at 300m. Of
course speed puts you in the frame at 300m and at Olympic level not too many
people are going to walk down their opponents in the home straight. But
these are folks who have trained to endure the final 100m. Put them up
against athletes who have not trained specifically to finish the 400m and
the home straight becomes the scene of a massacre.]
The reason Clark couldn't go better than 44.5 for fourth in the Seoul final
was that he had been carrying a hamstring problem (calcification around the
sciatic nerve, nearly 2-inches deep into the muscle) for 8 months which was
only cleared up six weeks before the Games. So coming into Seoul he had run
only three races in 1988, the fastest 46.1sec. So he was certainly not race
fit then - and if it wasn't for your expert massage therapy Charlie, he
would definitely not have even made it to Seoul.)
So Charlie, thanks again.
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/26/2002 :
10:35:00 AM
posted by KitKat
Our philosophy about endurance diverged somewhat from the "over-distance"
idea of rep 1000m, or rep 600m. Instead we had an "over-time" philosophy:
keeping the athlete running fast for longer than his race target, ie longer
than 45sec.
During their general preparation training phases, Darren and Seoul finalist
Maree Holland (50.24, Seoul semi) routinely sprinted "in the rhythm of the
race" up a long grass slope of about 12-degrees for a distance of about
360-metres. That achieved a few things:
* It kept them running for longer than they needed to be out there
competing;
* The slight angle did not unduly disturb their technique, in that they
still ran tall (which tends not to be the case when a sprinter runs rep
500m-1km) and because the ground rises to meet them, they did not
overstride;
* That in keeping with my philosophy that the 400m is essentially a
power-endurance run, the hill sessions acted as a bridge between the
gymnasium weightlifting strength work and the flat track work. Cathy Freeman
also lives on the hills during her general prep phase.
To compound the endurance component, a routine session was 3 x 2 x 360m hill
in 53sec-46sec, with jog down recovery between reps, and full recovery
between sets of about 45min.
We did other sessions during strength and endurance phases such as 3x3x300m
(on grass usually) with 100m jog recovery in 42-49sec and sometimes 3x4x150m
on grass in sub-19sec, so you can see some of the work was not in the race
time-zone at all, but it seems to have helped develop the feed-and-flush
vascular network. The 9x300m and 12x150 only came up one apiece every six
weeks and then only in the general prep phases, although they evolved into
other sessions which were significantly faster...eg: Darren did a set of
300m in 31.7sec (hand, on synthetic track), 30sec recovery, and rolling 200m
backup in sub 21sec. We thought that was pretty good.
Kitkat,
It seems as though there was alot of work done in the area of endurance and
strength-endurance. How long did the general prep phase last and what would
a week during this phase look like, once you added in all the hill work,
over time work etc.? Lastly, you said the hill session functioned as a
bridge between the track and the weightroom. What did the weigth program
consist of? I hope these questions aren't to demanding, your post simply had
me thinking. If the answers are very extensive my email is ragillo@ilstu.edu
Thanks
dm
Website Member
Posts : 27
Website Member 5/26/2002 : 6:49:49 PM
Re KitKat's
post,
Do you have any specific examples of training cycles from early preparation,
pre-race and racing cycles? My 400m philosophy has always been the same as
yours (ie train at race pace) but no one seems to do much of that where I
live (Australia). They either train super slow or like a 100m runner. I had
some great succes when the majority of my training was in the 'window'
between slowest and fastest race pace. I vaguely remember reading an article
in the Australian coaching magazine about Darren Clarke's training. Did you
write this? If so, are your ideas still the same? Thanks (ps do you still
coach in Australia?)
KitKat
Website Member
Posts : 62
Website Member 5/26/2002 : 10:30:34 PM
Hi Randy, dm,
This is a program designed for 400m types, so there is not a huge emphasis
on lifting monster weights.
There is also a guiding thought that "when in doubt, leave it out" so I'd
rather take longer to achieve a training objective than risk losing even
more time through injury.
I use six-week cycles in the general prep phases. Two cycles back-to-back,
and three cycles if time permits (mostly for underdeveloped athletes in a
single peak year).
The pattern of almost every week is two days on, one day off, three days on,
one day off.
Working out in that rhythm means the athlete can tolerate some pretty high
quality/or volume loads and recover naturally before re-loading.
The general prep 6-wk cycle is two weeks which could be described loosely as
strength and endurance, followed by three weeks loosely described as power
and speed. There are two days off running between the heavier work and the
start of the faster work.
The sixth week we call rest-and-test, which includes usually time trials on
the Tues and Thurs or Fri. There are some low-rep, high poundage lifting
sessions following those two track trials.
We always lift after the running because we work hard in the gym and in the
running sessions. Running fast after being torn down in the gym seems a
recipe for injuries, so we don't do that.
The first two weeks of the general prep looks like this: Sunday to Sat.
Sun: (3x4x150 jog/walk diagonal recoveries, jog lap between sets).
Mon: A.M. -Long hills / PM -Weights
Tues: Rest (Rehab, Regeneration)
Wed: 5-6 x 200m jog rec. / PM - Weights
Thur: Long hills
Fri: Jog 20mins/ PM Weights
Sat: Rest (Rehab, Regen)
Sun: 3x3x300m
Mon: jog 20min / Weights
Tues: Rest (R&R)
Wed 5-6 x 200m / Weights
Thur: Long hills
Fri: 2x5x100m tempo runthroughs / Weights
The next three weeks follow the same rhythm but replace hills with track
sessions like 300m + 30sec rest + 4x60m walk back rec, diminishing to 150 +
1X60m within the same session. That sort of stuff.
Long rep first for depletion, then emphasis on speed through good form
(hip/knee/ankle extension, relaxation, rhythm etc). The 5 or 6x200m session
is uniquitous, as are the Mon, Wed, Fri weight sessions.
Weights are viewed as a supplement to, not a substitute for, the running.
Weights are pretty simple - the basic exercises - cleans (+ snatch for those
who are not motor-morons and who also enjoy the presence of a competent
lifting coach), squats (hamstrings slightly below parallel), bench press,
series of stomach exercises, some development of the hamstrings in the long
position, some work for hamstrings and hips on Keiser pneumatic machines
(the only machines I advocate). Some pelvic stability exercises (any good
physio could provide these).
Reps are 2-6, sets are 1-6, intensity varies according to how the runner
feels, but mostly in the 85-95 % of 1rmax (although we never test to the
absolute limit for 1rmax.- an unnecessary risk of injury).
It is a fairly low volume program, except for the first fortnight of each
gen prep cycle. But the athletes do have enough work to stress them without
crushing them. They do seem to recovery fairly well.
The program functions like a linear series of little arrowheads or pyramids
stacked one on top of the other. Small base, small peak but providing
stimulation and variation through sessions which include sets of work, if
you like, in easily digestable bite-size chunks.
For whatever the reasons, it seems to work and as I wrote, Seoul finalists
Darren Clark (44.38) and Maree Holland (50.24) are the fastest
beneficiaries. I pretty much stopped serious coaching after 1990, although I
have helped Darren during his sundry comebacks and I worked with some others
(Kylie Hanigan - 4x100m and 4x400 relays for Australia in Atlanta). I am
currently helping a junior male 400 runner in Sydney.
Gee, sorry for the length of this
dm
Website Member
Posts : 27
Website Member 5/26/2002 : 11:08:07 PM
Thanks for such
a comprehensive reply! I notice that there is very little of what might be
considered 'pure' sprint work (ie short sprints with long recoveries). Do
you ever include any such work? If you did, did Darren's times over such
distances change over his career? Did you find that Darren's speed (100%)
improved over his career or did it remain static? I know that he had
exceptional speed as a junior and am wondering whether he improved on this
as a senior athlete.
dm
Website Member
Posts : 27
Website Member 5/26/2002 : 11:22:09 PM
We did other
sessions during strength and endurance phases such as 3x3x300m (on grass
usually) with 100m jog recovery in 42-49sec and sometimes 3x4x150m on grass
in sub-19sec, so you can see some of the work was not in the race time-zone
at all, but it seems to have helped develop the feed-and-flush vascular
network. The 9x300m and 12x150 only came up one apiece every six weeks and
then only in the general prep phases, although they evolved into other
sessions which were significantly faster...eg: Darren did a set of 300m in
31.7sec (hand, on synthetic track), 30sec recovery, and rolling 200m backup
in sub 21sec. We thought that was pretty good.i>
How did the longer, slower sessions evolve into the faster sessions later in
the 6 week cycle? Also, how did your cycles develop over the entire season?
KitKat
Website Member
Posts : 62
Website Member 5/27/2002 :
1:02:39 AM
After the general prep phases (at least 3 months, preferably 4-1/2) we
transitioned into a 4-week cycle which addressed the race zone from around
100m to 300m, with ladders of longer sprints (within those parameters) and
with walkback recoveries,. Later we would move to shorter cycles of work or
into relay racing. This was done on a mixed program in 7-day cycles. Then
sometimes over Christmas back into a modified strength/endurance platform,
transitioning out again into the domestic grand prix and national titles in
March.
Speed development (or a tough session like 6x200m in 23sec jog back rec)
always followed on the morning after a rest day - ie: on Sunday or
Wednesday. There was some endurance-type sprinting done the day after a
high-speed day. The endurance sprinting was usually in the form of a two-rep
set, sometimes with the first rep done as tempo and the backup done at max.
Then even though the effort was there, the speed of the backup rep was
relatively slow and there was less risk of injury. All reps done with good
form (as we interpreted it). eg: 200m in 400m race-pace (low-to-mid-21sec
rolling start), 2mins rec, then 200m flat out (aiming for differential of
less than 1sec, eventually neg-splitting close to the peak).
There were always fresh days when they would do something like 1x300m and
full recovery of maybe 45mins and then perhaps 1x200m - done as time
tria;ls. But this was even done a couple of days during the rest-and-test
weeks.
The sessions are basically only limited by one's own imagination. When we
stuck to our own rules, we basically never had an injury and we always got a
fast outcome to the main peak.
dm
Website Member
Posts : 27
Website Member 5/27/2002 : 7:21:29 AM
Thanks for
another thoughtful response KitKat!
On a lighter note, what are some of the more unusual (but useful) 400m
sessions that you have used, or come across? Every coach and athlete I talk
to seems to have his/her favourite session that they swear by. One athlete I
know used to sprint while being towed by a car, producing a 40s 400m! I
would like to see examples that you have come across (I'd love to hear from
Charlie and others too). I am intrigued by the extreme diversity of coaching
available for the 400m and I thought that we might expand the discussion a
little to encompass the 'wilder' side of 400m running...
Randy
Website Member
Posts : 102
Website Member 5/27/2002 : 9:14:46 AM
posted by KitKat
Hi Randy, dm,
...The first two weeks of the general prep looks like this: Sunday to Sat.
Sun: (3x4x150 jog/walk diagonal recoveries, jog lap between sets).
Mon: A.M. -Long hills / PM -Weights
Tues: Rest (Rehab, Regeneration)
Wed: 5-6 x 200m jog rec. / PM - Weights
Thur: Long hills
Fri: Jog 20mins/ PM Weights
Sat: Rest (Rehab, Regen)
Sun: 3x3x300m
Mon: jog 20min / Weights
Tues: Rest (R&R)
Wed 5-6 x 200m / Weights
Thur: Long hills
Fri: 2x5x100m tempo runthroughs / Weights
The next three weeks follow the same rhythm but replace hills with track
sessions like 300m + 30sec rest + 4x60m walk back rec, diminishing to 150 +
1X60m within the same session. That sort of stuff.
Kitkat,
Thanks for the for such a thorough response. You only include 3 hill
sessions. Is this all the time you spend at the hill or do you revisit in
the a later cycle? If not have you ever kept it in your cycle for a longer
period of time? I'm asking because I'm a big fan of the hill work and we
will visit the hill once a week for a number weeks (until it becomes to cold
outside, I'm in central Illinois).
KitKat
Website Member
Posts : 62
Website Member 5/27/2002 : 8:12:02 PM
Hi,
Only 3 hill sessions but they are situated within a 2wk period. The 2wk
period appears twice or three times - depending on time available on the
annual calendar - in the general prep phases. But we will go back into
modified hill sessions (during our Christmas break when there is no
competition in Australia) - so a modified hill may be the same 360m hill
done at 400m race rhythm, jog to the bottom, walk up to halfway, then do 3-4
x top 150m segment of the same hill. After the main domestic season is
finished, we go back into one or two cycles of gen prep, using the modified
hill session before (in the case of developed athletes) heading to the
European circuit. By the way, the long hill-short hill converts into track
sessions like 300 + 150, or 300 + 60,50,40,30 etc.
I just think variety is the spice of life, as they say. Too much of one sort
of seasoning spoils the appetite. You don't ever want to bore the athlete. A
bored athlete is a weakened athlete. I have too much respect for them to
make them go through any more pain than absolutely necessary for them to
fulfil their own goals.
The hills also take a while to sharpen up from and the further you get away
from routinely (90% of the yearly load?) moving "in the rhythm of the race",
the less specific your training and the less effective with regard to
transfering into a race performance....If we're not training specifically,
we're not training to compete. If we're not training to compete, what are we
training for?
AJ
Website Member
Posts : 68
Website Member 5/28/2002 : 2:26:27 AM
KitKat
Can you comment on Kylie Hannigans Preparation for 96, I remember her being
much more powerful, and running a few good 100's in the leadup to the games.
I believe she had not done a great deal of work in the gym with her previous
coach.
KitKat
Website Member
Posts : 12
Website Member 5/28/2002 : 3:32:21 AM
hello AJ,
Hano followed the same fundamentals that Maree Holland and Darren Clark did,
as previously posted. She took a long time to get her race model right and
to overcome lack of self-confidence. She never really coped with 5x200m in
26sec. But she always gave every session 100%. I only started coaching her
at the direction of Athletics Australia's then head coach (Phil King) who
made it clear to Kylie he was not investing any more funding in her unless
she could satisfy him that the next time she went overseas she would
actually get on the track. On her previous two world title trips to
Stuttgart and Gothenburg she failed to make the pre-village entry time, so
just returned home. So I began working with her in October 1995 and it was
quite difficult during the domestic summer. But at the NSW State titles by
Feb 1996 she managed 3rd (100m), and 2x1st (200m & 400m). She won 4x400m
relay s
::contents © Elliott Oti 2002-2004 where applicable
